Relationship Changes With Your Loved One As A Caregiver

When you become a caregiver you think about the extra responsibilities, being an advocate and your loved one’s care. You don't think about the relationship changes and dynamics that occur.  

Being the child of an aging parent often forces you into role reversal.    It can be awkward, embarrassing, frustrating and very challenging at times.  

I feel it was extremely challenging to have the relationship of the past, especially when caregiving calls you to be the financial manager, the healthcare manager, the safety manager and the manager of their overall well-being. Changing the dynamic of your relationship from being a daughter to a primary caregiver felt emotional and confusion.   

When your spouse needs care, your relationship changes too.   Your spouse is no longer your lover, partner, or your fun date.  This transition can be difficult.   You now miss the everyday help.  You miss the companionship.  You miss the conversation.  You miss the intimacy.  

The first thing you probably noticed are the extra tasks. Simple things like, they carried out the garbage or ran to the store or did the dishes or filled up the car.  Now you have to take on more.  Your focus is different.  You may be in constant worry or checking on your loved one and trying to do everything you can to make them feel better.  

When we begin providing care for a loved one, our relationship with that person can take on a new meaning as our role in their life changes. Whether we are their spouse, child, sibling or friend, taking on the role of managing their care or helping them cope with a disease or condition comes with unique responsibilities and relational dynamics. In some cases, caring for a loved one may make our relationship with them stronger, but in others, the stresses of caregiving may lead to increased strain which in turn can negatively impact our relationship with a loved one.

If you are experiencing a strained relationship, it starts with

• Assessing and auditing the big picture
• Brainstorm options
• Communicate effectively
• Listen to our loved one’s preferences
• Separate the disease from the person
• Explore resources

Caregiving naturally affects your relationship with the person you care for. You interact in new ways. You see each other differently. And you experience unfamiliar, sometimes funny or even delightful feelings. 

 Approach the changes positively, with an open mind, and you might be surprised. Your relationship could become stronger and more fulfilling.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:00

Well, hello, my friend, and welcome to another episode of the Caregiver Cup podcast. I'm digging into a topic today that really is going to be kind of exciting here. That's one that I haven't talked about. And it's been one that many of my clients have experienced. Myself, I've experienced it. And I know some of you might even be experiencing it right now. When you become a caregiver, really you think about all of the things that you have to do, those extra responsibilities now that have been added to your plate. You talk, you think about being a good advocate for your loved one and all of the care that they need. I personally didn't see this piece, this topic that I'm talking about coming. I didn't see it at all. I never heard anybody talk about it. And I didn't read about it. And I've done a lot of research when it comes to caregiving. It's the relationship challenges, it's the relationship changes that you encounter with your loved one that you go through when you are the caregiver. And I really feel that there's different stages that you go through with your loved one as well. So we're going to break it all down today. And we're going to, I'm going to, in the podcast today, I'm going to share some of my personal experiences, especially with my mom. I'm going to share some experiences with my spouse. But what's going to be really exciting, I'm going to bring on Dennis, my spouse, and talk about, I'm going to ask him some questions and have him talk about how change cancer changed him, how cancer changed our relationship, how the challenging times and in the sickest times, what was in his head and how it, how did it affect me and what were his triggers and so on. We'll break it all down. And so today, when you finish this episode, and if you stick with me to the end, you're going, I'm going to really cover three parts. How to manage with these challenges changing relationships and how you do that, how to identify your challenges. And I think you're going to get that by just thinking through and listening to my stories. And then you're going to determine what you can change and what you can't change. So if you're in a relationship right now that's not the same, and your relationship is not the same, and your loved one is sick, or it's a huge burden right now, my hope is that this helps you. Or even if you are okay right now, and my hope is that you just listen to this episode and really be proactive and think about it and trying to go ahead and nip some of these things in the butt so that you can go ahead and not have to be in the predicament that many of us are. So without further ado, let's move into today's episode. The one I remember most is when I had to make the hard decision to take my mom's car keys away. The writing was on the wall, meaning it was no longer safe for her to drive, and she was going to hurt herself, or most importantly, she was going to hurt somebody else. Mom was struggling with her eyesight and complained of seeing double and struggling with the sunlight and driving at night was even worse for her. Mom was a very independent person and independent woman and treated her car like her her own her only child. Really, she cherished the her little tiny blue cavalier. But she had two accidents since my dad died. Where, and the second one, thankfully, made my job so much easier. And what had happened is the first one was just a little accident that, you know, it it happened. But the second one was she was truly in this three-lane road at the stop and go light, and she had to turn right, but she wasn't in the right lane. She thought she was, and she said she thought the line was further to her her left, but really in hindsight, there was another van kind of in her blind sight that was coming up and doing the right turn. And my mom turned into the the the van per se. And at that point, and then they called the police, and the police came and wrote up the accident report. Obviously, she was at fault, and she said she didn't see the car, which rightfully so she didn't. And she lost her, she actually got six points taken off, and she lost her her life, her license wasn't lost, but they were it was in, it was on hold. And I don't know what the formal word is, I can't think of it right now. But what she had to do is if she wanted her license back, she had to wait six months and she had to go back in and take her driver's test again. She had to take this online course and go through the eye appointment and all that. And she just she kept, she she just kept saying, It wasn't my fault. I didn't see him, that kind of thing. Well, what happened then is after she was about two miles away from my house, she got back in the car and drove over to my house and what and ring ring ring on my door. And I'm trying to work, and I was on a teleconference call and all this kind of stuff. And she came in and she goes, the cop gave me a ticket, and it wasn't even my fault. And I I don't know how it happened, that kind of thing. And more or less that convinced and helped us with the whole driving situation. She was still convinced it wasn't her fault, and she couldn't accept that she couldn't drive. She was so angry at me and would complain to others that her daughter took her car away. You know, and it was, I had to be the bad cop. I had to say, Mom, here's the here's the ticket, here's the letter that you received in the mail within days after, explaining that you, your license was on hold, or and she was in probationary mode or lost her license, and it wasn't safe for her to drive anymore. I even tried to spring it, I kind of shift it to her saying, you know what though? You've access to a cab, you've access to Uber, I'll get the app on your phone. Now your kids can take you where you need to go, that sort of thing. But she felt like she was in jail. She felt like she lost her arms and her legs. And I understand that. So the transition was hard for her. But what I did versus just totally taking away her car and everything like that. What we did, what I did with the help of my my siblings was we went ahead and we kept the car in her underground garage, and we left one set of keys with her, one set of keys with me, and we changed the car over to my name because she didn't have a license anymore. And so I had it insured. Obviously, you even if she went to drive back, her her insurance would have been really high. It was already getting higher because this was her second accident. But eventually, and you probably could see it, but I couldn't see it at the time. Eventually, she would sneak out with the car. And it maybe would be she would drive it up to the parking lot through the parking garage and up to the top before we came and took her. What was nice about it though is she had a car there, so anybody that came to run errands with her or take her anywhere could take the car versus their vehicle. And that kind of gave mom a little bit, but I never could trust it. I had numerous conversations with her about her behavior, and I believe she just had to blame someone since she lost her dependence. But I would sit down with her and talk to her about if she and I would really bit get dramatic with her. And I said, if they catch you driving, they're gonna take you to jail. You know, it is a it is an offense. So being the child of an aging parent, many of you are, often forces you into role reversible, right? It's awkward at first to be thinking about now I have to be the parent of my parent. It can also be embarrassing because the your parent may do things or say things that you're you're thinking, where did that come out of their mouse mouth? It could be frustrating because it's like, okay, I told her she could not drive. I told her that, you know, you could have hurt somebody, and she just kept saying, Kathy took away my car keys. And it definitely was challenging at times. I feel it's extremely challenging to have the relationship of the past that my mom and I had, especially when caregiving calls you to be the financial manager now. You are the health care manager now, you are the safety manager now, and the manager of their overall well-being. Just think about what you do, you know, for your parent or for your loved one. You become more, wear more of those hats. I remember her telling me things like, yeah, Kathy manages my bills and she won't give me any more money. And I'm like, it's her money, but I'm trying to go ahead and making sure that she's going to be financially set. And so we had a budget. We agreed on a budget, but it was all Kathy's fault. It's hard time, hard to swallow sometimes. Many of you hear about my mom or have heard about my mom uh through this podcast. Unfortunately, I lost her just months ago, October of 2022. So, um, and maybe even followed me on Instagram and Facebook. We had such a very good relationship right in 2018 when my dad passed away. My mom was healthy, she just needed just minor help with with her finances and you know, just kind of getting squared away because dad did a lot of those major things. And so, but as she aged, it became more challenging to go ahead and be to take that daughter hat off and be that primary caregiver. Uh, if you can see, if you see any of her pictures, you you can see that she was a spitfire. She's this feisty old little lady, and and I was the one pulling her back or pulling back and reminding her of her safety, reminding of her care and more. I mean, now I look at some of these situations and I chuckle and laugh, but I was so angry with her. She I get I coached her and said, you know, mom, especially when she could drive at first, or even when I'd work with my brother and saying, Hey, can you take mom for her labs and her doctor's appointment? But before she we took her car away, she went to her own doctor's appointments because they were just really across the bridge in our small little city and it wasn't too far for her to go. And she'd go in for lab work and then she'd go for a doctor's appointment. Well, one doctor's appointment, she had to wait. And she didn't like the fact that she had to wait. And so she just picked up and left and didn't finish her doctor's appointment. Well, the doctor will charge you, and then the doctor will wonder why you left. And so I get a call as the primary caregiver saying your mom left her appointment. Oh my gosh. Another one that I was just flipping mad about, but now I laugh about it, is she accept she accepted any friend request, even if she didn't know the people. Well, she accepted a friend request from this gentleman, and she went ahead and started conversing with him. She went ahead and joined the date the dating places on Facebook, and she started giving out too much information to these men. And I'm like, mom, and so I had threatened her and said I was going to put her parental controls on her phone if she didn't, you know, and she started getting hacked and stuff like that. So like constantly monitoring her. And she would complain, like I said before, that I wasn't giving her any money when she was getting a set amount of cash each week. Plus, she had her, she had her checking debit card, and so she had the money, but she would just find things to go ahead and blame somebody for. She the the last piece, and I think she started developing some dementia at the end. The last notes I read at the doctor's office, and my brother took her to the doctor's office, but sat in the waiting room. She told the doctor that her kids were out of town and they couldn't visit her all the time. And I'm like, I'm in the same city, just a few miles away. My brother is 10 miles, 15 miles away. He wasn't that far away either. So, and then there would be times where she would call anytime, day or night, because her phone would lock up or her her TV wouldn't work. Oh my goodness. So, yeah, some of these stories, like I said, I can laugh, but some of these stories really made me feel angry and then resentful and then sad and then frustrated. And I'm telling you these stories because I know that you can probably relate to some of the challenges and the strains that it puts on your relationship. The hardest was when I had to have a serious conversation with my mom about my own healthy boundaries. I was about a year ago this this year, about a year ago, I about this time, I was really heavy into um Dennis' transplant. And my mom wasn't the type of person that would hear everything. She only heard how it impacted her. And that's just spent all my life. When I explained, when I would come over how I would stay connected and how we would go ahead, how I would go ahead and manage this. We agreed to, and I think I've said this before in past episodes, we agreed to, I'd spend my devote my time on Sundays. We call them Sunday fun days, to socialize, to get things done, to help her out. And as she started having more and more challenges, it was helpful. But I would also FaceTime her each day. She had a tablet, she had a phone, all she had to do is click that green button, and we could talk amongst ourselves. I had my brother John supporting me with appointments that I couldn't attend to because I was working my job. Dennis was in the midst of chemotherapy, and then we were going for a stem cell transplant. But she could only, she only saw that Kathy wasn't going to be taking care of her each day. That's what she saw, and that's what she heard. Versus how I was managing and put my managing her care and putting myself first. I kept telling her, I'm going to be more active and happy to see you on Sundays, and we can look forward to Sundays and blah, blah, blah. But the most important behavior I noted from her was that then after I would try to go ahead and work and do this, and I did this several times, she would pull away and then I would feel angry. And so it was this challenging relationship of it was like, it was almost like a teeter-totter. At one moment, I if I if I was taking care of her, she was happy. If the next moment I said, you know, mom, I'll see you next Sunday, and she's like, You're not gonna come and see me. And I'm like, we talked about this, mom. You're you you have activities to go to. John's gonna be here on such and such a day, and I'm gonna FaceTime you every day. And then, okay, you should make me feel guilty. Like I said, I was very, I was getting burnt out. This was year number five plus, and now I was moving into the stem cell transplant. And the biggest transformation I worked on through all of this was focusing on myself. How could I not focus on myself when my podcast, and I tell you all the time, you have to put yourself first, fill your cup first. I had to realize that I can't change my mom. And that was a really, it's so obvious, but deep in my heart, I always wanted to. Her behaviors and personality and disease most likely will never change. And I had to convince myself about that. Seriously, before last year, I thought I could change her and coach her to be a much more optimistic person, a much more kinder, safer, and healthier per person. And I think I like to think that there were moments of coaching where coaching wins, but eventually she would go back to mom, the old mom, and that's who she was. And it exhausted me to go back and try to coach her and coach her and trying to help her when when somebody does not want to change, or their disease won't allow you to change, or their behaviors aren't going to change. I had to realize, I had to realize that uh what I could control and what I couldn't control. And that was tough for me. That was really tough. Changing the dynamics of your relationship from from me from being a daughter to a primary caregiver felt emotional. It felt confusing, especially when my mom felt good for a couple days before her caregiving and needs kicked in. Like I said, when in the earlier years, shopping, going out for dinner, hanging out together. We were mother-daughter. It was so fun. But then as your parents age, the dynamics will change. So in just a minute, I will switch gears and talk about caregiving from a partner and a spouse perspective. So when your spouse needs care, your relationships will change. Your spouse no longer may be your lover, your partner, your fund date, or you fill in the blank, right? The transition can be difficult because of the disease, because of their illness, because of their treatment. You now miss the everyday help, maybe. You miss the companionship, you miss the conversations, you miss the intimacy. The first thing you probably noticed or are now noticing is the extra tasks that you have to do. Because Dennis is the type of support from me that will take out the garbage or run to the store for me, or do the dishes, or fill up the car. And now I'm looking at having to take care of some of these myself or all of these myself. Your focus becomes different. You may be in constant worry, you may be checking your loved one more often, or you're trying to do everything that you can to make them feel better. For me, it was obsessively looking at what can I do, what can I do when I'd bring it to him, and that would just upset him. Like I said earlier, you miss the presence, or the opposite. There are no long they are no longer at work or you're or or doing their thing. What I'm trying to get at is for Dennis, he was he was home all the time, and I worked from at home. And so I would I have an upstairs office, and then I would walk down and see him sleeping on his lazy boy, terribly sick, or just laying there and zoning out, or walking around. Around slowly or whatever, he was sick. Some days I could talk to him, and then there were other days he just wanted to be left alone. And I never knew if it was okay to ask, How are you feeling? Because when I asked my dad that back in when he was sick, he would be crabby. Why are you asking? Do I look sick? He would say, and I'm like, oh my gosh. Or do you ask him if they took their meds? Or do you ask them, can I make you something for lunch? You might get the response like, Well, I'm capable of making my own lunch, you know? Or the opposite. They expect it. He didn't uh he didn't have uh like for Dennis, he didn't have our work to talk about, he didn't have his work to talk about, he didn't have what's going on with the guys, or uh the the driving story, somebody cut me off. We didn't have that interaction like we had, and I know he thrives on interaction, he thrives on talking. If you talk to my husband Dennis, he will talk your ear off to the point where sometimes I'll just walk away because he's talked so much. Many of the caregivers I've spoken to, as well as some of my clients, are struggling right now with their spouses, with the relationship that they have or with the relationship now that they lost. That's why I thought I would bring on my spouse, Dennis, today and ask him a few questions. Well, hey, my friend, I wanted to take a moment and tell you that registration is now open for the Caregiver Cup Circle. You might be asking, what is the Caregiver Cup Circle? Well, it's a community of women that gather together and we share our experiences, our struggles. We offer support, we lift each other up. You'll be able to bring your struggles and your challenges and connect with other caregivers and leave each meeting feeling like you are not alone and you have hope. This is a monthly membership where you can meet or where you'll meet twice per month, and we use the Zoom technology. And in February, we start already on the Thursday, February 9th. In addition to the two meetings that we do in Zoom, I also offer a caregiver workshop for the members and I send you an invitation. Each month we tackle a caregiver topic and find new ways, skills, and techniques to release this caregiver stress and burnout that we eventually get. Being a caregiver can feel so lonely, so stressful, and downright overwhelming. And that's why finding a community of women that understand and have similar experiences was one of the best things I did and the first decisions I made as a caregiver. And you know what? I want that for you. So you can go out to KathyLvan.com forward slash caregiver circle and join us in February. The link will be in the show notes. You'll be so glad you did. And so let's jump back into the episode. Okay, Dennis, I have some questions, and I'm so excited to bring you on, like I had said earlier in this episode to this group here. Our relationship has really changed since you got your original cancer diagnosed back in 2017. There was some challenging times when you were at your sickest. And from my perspective, you know, you could see that our relationships was was kind of struggling, but I want to get it from your perspective. Describe how your relationships or how our how you viewed our relationships and the dynamics have changed for you. So we're gonna, you guys were passing the mic back and forth, though.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

Um for me, it it helped you being in the insurance industry, it helped a lot because you could be a great advocate. Um a lot of times when we were talking to the doctor and trying to figure things out because we were going in blind, didn't know anything. Um you knew which questions to ask, and you could see things happening with me that I didn't see. Um I was just sick. I didn't know. Um so so you could cheat you could see physical changes in me um and mood changes that I didn't notice because I was I was living it and not seeing it. Um so it really, really helped um for you to be there when we would go to the doctor. Um and I I know that was sometimes a struggle for you because you were trying to trying to take care of all of your dad's stuff, all of my stuff. Um so I would say that that that was the the good thing to have you. Um but yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

Yeah, you know, think about our relationship too, because I think that before cancer, we we were just working, enjoying life. We were grandparents, we were doing everything, and now all of a sudden you are sick, you know, and it it's almost like I had to look at Dennis now as my my partner or my spouse, but also another responsibility. How did that make you feel when um and w how did you think our relationship made it this far and kept going this far? You know, what what was the key for us?

SPEAKER_00 27:53

Well, I I think talking to each other. Um and obviously it was a struggle because I couldn't sometimes I couldn't tell you what was wrong because I didn't know myself. Um, and again, I you I mean you could see the the changes, moods and physical changes in me. Um, so that helped for you to speak up and and say that. Um, but it was for for me personally, um, it was a struggle uh because I felt a lot of guilt. I was I was sick, I was working part-time at best. Um, so I wasn't, you know, the the manly thing where I wasn't the the the breadwinner. Um so that was a struggle. It's um you know emasculating because oh I gotta have my wife take care of me. Um so yeah, that that was a struggle. And we went from like you said, we we were grandparents and we could we could come and go as we wanted, we would go to shows, we would go to movies at the drop of a hat, and how we couldn't do that. Um because if I didn't feel good, it all depended on me. Everything was on me, how I felt. Um so yeah, that was that was a bit of a struggle to always be hearing, and I know you meant well. I really do, but to always the you one of the lines that I hated the most was, how do you feel? How do you feel? It's like quit asking me that. Um, but again, I know you meant well, and um, but it was a struggle because I felt guilty that I then I would, you know, I would say something or snap at you, and then you would feel bad. And now we both felt bad because I didn't feel good and now you were crying. Um so yeah, it it yeah, there's things there that um I'm glad we could talk through it. Um, and it's a struggle. Don't get me wrong, it it's a struggle.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

Yeah, and I think every relationship is really tested at this point. Like I talked about my mom earlier in the podcast and how that relationship changes. And I think as married couples or partners or fiances or best friends or whatever your relationship is, it does take a twist. Uh, I can't even imagine how it would feel for me to have you take care of, take care of me. And if I was the one sick and we did a role reversal, but I think it's important when you're do when you do communicate with each other or as you go to sense what the triggers are from both perspectives. Both perspectives. Both perspectives. So you said triggers were were how how when I asked you how do you how do you feel, or I did you take them meds?

SPEAKER_00 30:46

Yeah, oh gosh.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

What were other triggers?

SPEAKER_00 30:48

Um sometimes it wouldn't be much. Honestly, it there was a point, a l a low point, and I was pretty lucky with with through all of my stuff. I was never really, really sick sick. Um, I would just feel bad. It'd be like having having the flu is really you go through the chemo, and again, I know I was really lucky, some people aren't. Um, but I would just feel like I had a bad flu. Um, so I didn't want to talk. I just, you know, sometimes I just wanted to be left alone. Let me sleep, let me watch my show that I've seen a thousand times. Just just leave me alone. And um, like a good wife, you would come and try to check on me and and stuff like that. So it was a lot of times it was it wasn't much. Um, other times it would be like, you know, you'd ask, you know, you'd want to go to a show or you'd want to do something. It's like, no, I'm not. I just not gonna do it today, you know, and and again, I know you needed to get out of the house, you needed to get away for five minutes, and and I just couldn't do it. And so that would, yeah, that would kind of trigger me. And then then I would an hour later, I would feel horrible because I made you feel bad.

unknown 32:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

And yeah, so yeah, it just is and that's again, it goes back to just talking to each other, talk it out and say, you know, why don't you want to go? Why, you know, yeah, you know, can can you suck it up for me for an hour, you know, for me to get me a little bit of relief too. So right.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

Well, and I think that you hit it on the head is like you have to find a way to communicate with each other. And what I learned is communicating, having having discussions with you when you were you were at your good times. I'm gonna sneeze. Sorry, everybody. I feel like I gotta sneeze. Um, when when it's a good time, yeah, when you're not sick, or it's not right after chemotherapy, or when you're having an upbeat day, and trying to go ahead and doing that. It's no different than you don't want to talk to somebody right after you had a like they're they're having a bad day or whatever. You want to think about that and how to communicate and trying to I have years of communication classes through corporate, but having those those crucial conversations that you need to have so that you don't because I had the same thing. I had to think I had moments where I was so stressed or so burnt out that I would snap, I would just dread it, and then to understand from you how much guilt that you felt, yeah, you know, and it it is, it's it's you can never ever ever take it personal.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

Um, and and I I say that and it's hard to do, and I know it's hard to do because I've been there. I've I we when the few times that you snapped at me, I took it personal. Um, and it's not, it's it's really it's coming from a bad place. It's you know, that other person, whether whichever side of it you're on, is in a tough spot. Just not they're not themselves. Trust me, for it uh from someone who's been there many times, it's not the person I am. Um so yeah, you I would say that first and foremost is is try not to take it personal. Try to say, hey, okay, you know, give them their give them their space for a little bit, or or whatever it is you know going on in that moment, and and you know, come back to it later. Come back to it when they're a little bit better shape.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

I'm gonna throw out something here that's not in even in our notes, because I have notes I shared with Dennis some questions I had, but as we're talking about this, I believe, and tell me if you agree or disagree, I believe that when caregiving situations happen, you became a different person, and you you are a new person because of it. Yeah. I was, I mean, before we were a married couple, living the normal life, the happy dream, and then cancer comes in, and now it's Dennis Cancer Van a Hoovel, you know, and then it's Kathy Caregiver Van and Hoovel. And then you you grow this strength and this different person, and I have been too, but it's almost like you're you're different, and you can't go into caregiving, at least from my perspective as a caregiver, thinking that your spouse is the same spouse that they were before this disease, right? What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 35:41

You're absolutely right. Um, I mean, and and even in a normal everyday life, you're you're you're you're always growing and changing the way it is, but this really speeds up or you know, I guess amplifies that process. Um, I'm I'm nothing right now, I'm nothing like the person I used to be. Um this is this is you know kind of open my eyes a little bit more to the you know look at the good in people, look at the the bright side and stuff like that. Uh not that I was a negative person before, but I would I would go that go that route easier. Um I would snap at people, I would, you know, I'm one to flip people off if they cut me off going down the road and stuff like that. And now I might do it every now and then, but more often than not, I won't. It's just like, yeah, it is what it is. Um I I think it's given me a better perspective of life. Um in you, I you know, it you're so much stronger than I mean, and I think it was always there, but it brought it out in you. Um all of this stuff with with me and your dad and your mom. Um I I think it's it's really brought that strength out in you uh without a doubt. Um I I think we're better people because of it. Um but you know, for for all of our our trials and tribulations, um, I don't think I I look around and I I think through everything we've been pretty lucky, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

Um what would you tell what would you tell a uh caregiver right now who's struggling with their relationship with their loved one? Their loved one is either um shutting down or their loved one is lashing out at them and just moody and owly, and their relationship is suffering. What advice would you have for a caregiver? Because at the end today, I'm gonna go through some of the things that like a process that they should they should assess and look at their challenges and and think about what they can do to improve it. Because there's things that they can control and things that they can't control. What would you tell them a caregiver right now who's in this challenge?

SPEAKER_00 38:10

Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:11

Um I am not a doctor, right? You're gonna do that little display.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

I am not a doctor, I'm not a therapist anyway. I probably need one. Um take a deep breath.

SPEAKER_02 38:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:24

First and foremost, take a deep breath. Again, they if they're lashing out at you and and shutting down, it it's probably coming from a bad place. Um from it's not problem. I I don't think it's their normal, normal way of being. Um I would tell you to have good conversations with their primary caregiver, um, whether it be their oncologist or or whoever, whoever you're whichever doctor they're seeing the most. Um, because there's typically a handful of doctors involved. So whichever one they're seeing the most, I would have some good conversations with them about what's going on. Be honest, um, because sometimes that's really hard to hear, too. Um, I know it was for me at one point in in through all of this. It was a little hard for me to hear, but I could I really could see it. Um but yeah, first I first and foremost, take a deep breath. No, they don't mean probably don't mean what they're saying. It's probably just a you know the chemo talking or just that they're in a of a feeling they're feeling that bad. Um and again again, and talk to have good conversations with the doctor. Um because that's what it took for me. Yeah, for you to have good con you to have good conversations with the doctor, then the doctor talked to me, and we came, we came up with a great idea, and it worked. Um, you know, I mean, and everybody's situation is a little different.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

But yeah, I agree, I agree. And uh and I think the good deep breath is observe why they're doing it, what what's happening.

SPEAKER_02 40:20

Right right then and the is it a certain person?

SPEAKER_01 40:22

Is it a certain situation? Is it the week after whatever they're going through is, you know, what is it? Because that's truly it. And it can be a lot of things.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

The time of day, if it gets, if they're if it's later in the day and they're just yeah, exhausted from the day, um from the medications, what what what they're particularly going through. Um there's just so many things that you know, and I'm I can only speak for myself, but there was there was a certain amount of it was the chemo, a certain amount of it was uh you know, toward the end of the day, I was I was way more owly um and easier set off because I'd be tired. It's like, okay, it's six o'clock, I gotta go to bed. I'm just exhausted. And I haven't done nothing all day but sit in my chair. Um, so yeah, it's it's there there's I think there's there there can be a lot of factors.

unknown 41:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 41:22

So I think this is really good, some good thoughts here because even for you too, as a caregiver, when you're observing your loved one and your loved one is feeling this way, and you're sensing that they're not themselves, and it's it's causing you extra pressure and stress and anger and resentment, you have to look at your situation too, and and doing that as well. So um, I think the biggest thing for us was to just make a point of always communicating, you know, and we knew our cues of when not to communicate and when to communicate and and being able to do that. So thank you, Dennis. Is there any lasting thoughts that you have for that caregiver now sitting through these challenging times? And what I'm trying to get at is can you kind of give them some hope or give them some optimism to kind of say, you know, the journey is hard, but when if you do too do something, you're it's going to make you feel better. And even from your perspective, from uh uh uh being sick and the disease perspective.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

Um well, I I know for me, and I and again I can only speak for me, but even through everything and and all of the times that that we had our little spats because you know you would you would ask me a question, whatever, whatever it was that that set me off. I knew in the back of my mind you meant well. I knew you were only trying to help. You know, you you were there for you were there for me. And I would say that in in everybody's situation, you're the person that you're caring for, they do know that. Um it's not that they don't know that, it's not that they don't appreciate it, because they do, they may not show it, and I there was a few times I didn't. Um they do know you mean well, they do know you're only there to you're you're just trying to help them. And sometimes they they can't express for whatever reason, they can't express how they're feeling, you know. Or they don't they they don't want to because they're tired of telling every everybody know what it seems like wants to know what's going on. How you doing, how you doing, how you doing. Um so it it gets old after a while, and and it does. 'Cause you're in a microscope. Yeah, you're you're

SPEAKER_01 44:00

You know, that loved one is in a microscope and everybody wants you to get better, especially the caregiver, so the caregivers can get on with their life.

SPEAKER_00 44:07

They can get on with their thing. And and everybody is looking at you thinking, you know, feeling, you know, in in my situation, you know, oh, poor Dennis, poor Dennis, poor Dennis. And nobody was saying poor Kathy.

SPEAKER_02 44:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

Nobody was doing that. And again, that made me feel guilty. So then I would feel down. And it just recreates that cycle that we everybody's trying to get out of.

unknown 44:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:32

So you know, and again, you know.

unknown 44:35

Right.

SPEAKER_00 44:36

Everybody's looking at you, the caregiver, you know, saying, Why can't you fix it? And and that's not your job. Your job is to just help us through it. Um, it's a doctor's job to fix it and and and in God's hands and whatever it may be. Um the caregivers, you're just really there to help and and guide us kind of through this. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 45:02

Wonderful. Well, that's some good good feedback here. And I I thank you, Dennis, for taking the time. And yeah, it gave us some good thoughts to think about. When we come back, um, we're going to go ahead and do our next step, which is we're going to talk about the whole piece of what can you do when you have identified your challenges? What's next? Where should I focus my energy on? So we're going to take a break here right now, and we're going to come back and we're going to get into that next. Well, I hope you are enjoying today's episode of the Caregiver Cup podcast. The ending is just about here, but I personally wanted to just stop and say thank you for listening to the Caregiver Cup podcast. I love sharing my message about caregiving to you and all caregivers. Can you do me a favor? If you know other caregivers, can you share the episode with them? Share the Caregiver Cup with them and start spreading the word. The more people we can connect with, the more we can form this huge caregiver community and help each other through the challenges and the struggles, the wins and the embracing of joy together. So without further ado, let's move on to the last part of episode 144. When we begin providing care for a loved one, our relationship with that person can take on a new meaning as our role in their life changes. Whether we are the spouse or the child or the sibling or the friend, whatever we are, we're managing their care, we're helping them cope with their disease or their condition. And we're taking on these unique responsibilities and most importantly, the relationship dynamics. In some cases, caring for a loved one may make our relationship stronger. And I believe that with my spouse, we had our peaks and valleys, but I look back at it, and it made us stronger because we were both open to this, the challenges and listening to each other. But in other cases, the stresses of caregiving may lead to increased strain, which in turn can negatively impact relationships with a loved one. And I'll be honest with you, I had such a good relationship with my mom up until maybe the last year. And the last year, the peaks and the valleys were a lot heavier and stronger. And I played more of the caregiver and like I expressed before, some of the manager responsibilities and less of the daughter. And I struggle with that today, but I know I did the right thing. So, but anyway, let's get back to sidebar here, but let's get back to what I had promised you at the very beginning of this episode. Uh, it is the the steps or the processes or the how-tos. I don't know really what how to explain them, but if you're experiencing a strain relationship, it starts with you taking some action and start working through the this relationship challenge. And the first one is the one that's really going to be important. And that is sitting with yourself and assessing and auditing the big picture of your relationship challenges. And that is really looking at everything, the big picture. What are the challenges? And when I say challenges, think of uh health challenges, physical challenges, emotional challenges, financial challenges, all of the challenges and really magnifying them and looking at each one. And then look at your loved ones' behaviors and look at your behaviors when it comes to the relationship. Look at the disease and really assessing and auditing the disease and when did the relationship happen during the disease and why is it that way? Really dig into it and be more or less Sherlock Holmes in the situation. Also look at yourself personally. What is the caregiver stress and burnout and fatigue doing to you? And how is that affecting the relationships? And so, for some of you, it may be very obvious when you go ahead and do this assessment and audit. For some of you, you're gonna really have to unpeel that onion and look at each and every piece. Only assess it right now and audit it. And maybe it's journaling, maybe it's typing it out, maybe it's taking a walk and just really thinking through it. And then once you've identified all of this, you can then start really seeing it and even brainstorming options. And what I don't want you to do is look at something and saying, Well, there is no option. For example, if you're stretched and you're trying to juggle everything, I want you to think about what you could potentially do, not shutting out saying, Well, it's not possible, I don't have the money, or there's no other resource. I don't want you to think closed-minded. I just want you to think about it. I want you to think about your loved one's mood and potentially what you could do with it. Start just looking at it. And like Dennis had said, there's options if like I could reach out, I read reached out during his appointment and talked to the doctor. We had communicated this, and I said, I want to bring this up. Are you okay with it? And he was at first kind of close-minded to it, but I said, I think it's worth talking about. Um, look at yourself from a burnout perspective. It and is it affecting you? And are you a lot shorter and snappier because of it? You know, so just look at all of that. And really, that first two steps are just really just dissecting it all. If I was your third party looking at you, I would have a series of questions I would ask you. I would go ahead and talk about, you know, have you thought about this? Have you thought about that? We're not taking any action, we're just spending time really unhashing everything. After that, it's really another process or step is really start communicating effectively. And what I mean by that is poor communication can often be a contributing factor to um your relationship strain. If you're having difficulty communicating with your loved one, you might want to take a step back and think about just some tips and really going back to basic communication and thinking about how you've been communicating or how you haven't been communicating, because I know in some situations, you if if you're so frustrated, some people have a tendency to just not say anything and they just keep it inside, which leads to stress and burnout. And so thinking about being patient and waiting for a loved one to finish, phrasing their thoughts before responding to them, or snapping first and and jumping into the conversation before they they feel communicated to, you know, simple things like thinking about your tone and if you're angry or raising your voice, that sort of thing, especially with elderly parents or or dealing with somebody that maybe has dementia, they're really thinking about that. Use tact or being really um, I'm trying to think of the word, not aggressive, but oh my gosh, why can't I think about it? I'm just a brain fart, sorry about that, but using tact when um when bringing up difficult subjects, uh, but not avoiding them altogether. And really, um that's assertive, is the word I'm trying to be. Be assertive and confident and really thinking about when you're delivering it, how you're delivering it, your state of mind and stress level and fatigue, and so is your loved ones. When's a good time to deliver this and how do you do that? I when I have had to talk and have those really hard conversations with my mom and with my spouse, I always thought about really making sure that they understood my intent first. I so love you and I don't like to see you this way, and I'm worried about you. So this is why I want to have the conversation. Is it okay that I share some things with you and really having that conversation and really thinking through it? Another one is consider your loved ones' feelings, and we talked about this saving your conversations um until they're they're they're in good spirits and they're not tired or stressed. If they bark at you in the middle of the night because you had to wake them up and give them their medication based on doctor's orders, and they get all bent out of shape about it, it's not a good conversation to have. You're tired, they're tired, and you might have to go ahead and swallow your pride a little bit, and then just saying, you know what, that's something I can talk to them about later. Also, sharing our negative feelings or venting or frustrations and anger, it's important to have a close friend or a relative or a community that you can talk to and release that anger and get ideas and bounce things off of them. Um, we have a great community called the Caregiver Cup community that uh for a nominal very uh simple and cheap amount each month, you can be part of this group and really being able to bring your thoughts and feelings and talk through those twice a month. We have a community online that you can go to, or if you have a friend, you can go ahead and do that. And if it gets to be really, really too much and it starts affecting your overall health and well-being, by all means, you really want to consider a therapist or a counselor that you can talk to. There's online ones I've used better help and and different resources as well. Another thing to consider is listening to our loved ones' preferences. And I think about it as listening with your eyes and your ears and and paying attention. Not not they not may not always speak it, they their body language may say it, you might notice something, but often a loved one may disagree with our choices when care uh providing care, which may lead them to being frustrated or upset with you. So pay attention to that. If if they get irritated by the fact that, you know, you're doing something and they don't like that or they want to do it themselves, listen to them and make that call based on their safety and judgment and so on. When possible, we should take our loved one's preference into consideration and respect what they value most. And we should ask ourselves what matters most to my loved one and try to work through that. Obviously, you have to think about their independence and their pride because you know, dealing with my husband and and having to deal with some things that are uncomfortable or um something a man doesn't want a woman to do, um, or never thought they would do that, that's hard for them to swallow. Um, and also thinking about your uh an elderly person, if their safety is in jeopardy, there's there's a no-brainer. You have to go ahead and step in. But trying to think through those and looking at the best possible care for them and what they prefer. And those are really good discussions to have, and saying, you know, now that you know we're we're done with dinner tonight, and and I noticed today, you could say, I noticed today that you became frustrated when I did this. You do can we talk about that? And maybe I can do something different, or maybe it bothers you. What can I do to help with that? You know, and having those conversations, expect defensiveness, but on the flip side, you know, I think you can get there. And another really key, an important piece is trying to separate in your mind and in your heart and in your thoughts and your emotions the disease from the person. An important thing to remember if a loved one has this chronic health condition, maybe it's cancer or dementia, or uh, you know, they're having kidney disease or whatever it would be, you may it may lead to behaviors in this person that we don't love, and it is affecting and it's outside of their control. It it is fine to be angry at the disease, but taking it out on a loved one may only upset or confuse them. And so definitely think about that is is their outburst because of the situation that they are in and the medication that they're taking, or the disease and be in the pain that they're in, or is it truly out of their just frustration? And so being able to separate that, and there have been many times where like my dad would snap at me and really be angry with my mom, and I'd lean to my mom and said, We know that's not dad, we know that he's struggling, knowing that he just has weeks to die, and he doesn't want to leave us, and he's upset and frustrated. So, you know, should we go ahead and talk to him or should we just let it go? And when you have that conversation, it's okay to say F cancer or you know, but the that might be something that you have to go ahead and let go of. And only you can go ahead and and do this, you know. It's good to bring it up in a conversation to say, I hate what cancer is doing to you, or I hate what the this pain is doing to you, and the medication is doing to you, and I know this isn't you, and you can have those conversations, and sometimes it's just beyond their control. And so being able to understand that in your mind and separate that will be helpful. The last piece of uh advice or way or process or a thought that you want to consider is looking at your resources. If you are struggling with their behavior or their challenge, or to maintain a positive relationship with your loved one, you should not be afraid to seek outside help. There are numerous resources available to you. If your loved one seems like they're pushing you away or they're depressed, or they're getting aggressive or angry, that's an important piece to go ahead and call your doctor on. Seek outside help and ask, is this normal? What they are the experts. It's also important for you to go ahead and find other people or other caregivers that are in the same situation of as you are. You know, find a dementia caregiver group or an Alzheimer's caregiver group if that's what you're dealing with, or join the caregiver cup circle and look for other caregivers with the same disease or the same situation as you are. When minds come together and you can go ahead and talk through that, that will help you in a safe environment. You can discuss your concerns and your frustrations and and and not feel alone because others have the same challenges. Also, there are, like I said before, there are therapists and counselors. I also am a caregiver coach that we could assess your situation first, make sure it's a good fit for you, and we can walk through this process with you if you feel like you're at that point. And so all you have to do is go to my website at KathyLvan.com and sign up for a the free assessment, coaching assessment first, and we can go ahead and do that. And so kind of to recap and those those processes that I think are important or these steps is assess and audit your big picture. Look at everything. Then once you've identified everything, then look at realistically, look at everything and look at where there could be improvements and brainstorm options. Then once you know that and you're doing that, then you want to move into this communication mode where you're going to start communicating with your loved one, communicating with your doctor, communicating. Maybe you have a sibling group in your caregiving for your parent together with your siblings. What a what's a perfect opportunity for you to say, hey, I've been noticing this with mom or dad lately? And it seems to be getting worse. And by you talking about it with your others and saying, let's figure out how we want to address that. But you want to start communicating effectively and trying things. You know, you're never going to be perfect. I've I I would go home, I would, I would go, go home after a really rough day with my mom and saying, I'm gonna have to go back and have a conversation with her, but I can't have it today. And she's just been sassy to me. And I know that something is not right. And so then I would go back in a couple of days and saying, Hey, mom, I'm gonna come back and grab your mail and and do that. And we would come back and I purposely would go, okay, what was going on on Sunday? You just weren't yourself. I know this wasn't you. What's what's happening? And yeah, we could have those conversations and we could talk about those in being able to do that. Um, listen to your loved one and just pay attention and then separate the disease. If it truly is the disease, don't take it personally and look at all of your resources. So, to conclude here today, I hope you found this somewhat helpful for you and at least get you started on that. You're gonna have to make some really tough decisions and saying, is this relationship their disease part of the caregiving experience? Is this relationship healthy enough for me to continue to maintain it? Or do I have to make some tough decisions? But caregiving naturally affects your relationships with the person you care for. It's the bottom line. You interact with them in new ways, and they're dealing with they're dealing with trauma and all of their feelings, like Dennis was talking about. All of those feelings in his head that he was dealing with, he's dealing with guilt and worry and frustration and anger and resentment and doesn't want to be there. You see each other differently now. You might see your loved one as no longer your intimate partner, you might see them as an extra chore. And I'm not trying to be mean, but sometimes you get to that point where it's like, oh my gosh, am I chick caring for my spouse, or is I'm I feel like I'm caring for a child again? And that's reality. And your experiences are unfamiliar. You don't expect them sometimes, but sometimes they can be funny and even delightful at some times as well. So the biggest thing you want to approach it with is this mindset that you can choose and you can make choices, you can control certain things. That's you. You can go ahead and give it the old try there. Go in with positivity and an open mind, and you might be surprised. Your relationship may get stronger and become stronger and more fulfilling. You may realize that you are working on it and you are becoming a better person because of it. And most importantly, you should be going in with the with the mindset that I have to go ahead and control certain things, and that's myself. I have to be able to sustain this responsibility and be the best caregiver that I can be for my loved one. So enjoy the rest of your day. I hope you found this benef beneficial. And until we meet again next time, don't forget it's so important to continue to fill your cup and keep your cup full or keep filling your cup so that you can be the best caregiver you can be. Bye for now.